Independent Rear Suspension, OEM, aftermarket, stock configuration or heavily modified, all makes and models, everyone is welcome here!!!

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11/29/2012 2:30 pm  #1


Green Hornet - 68 Mustang IRS info

Hi everybody,

Been trying  to get some info about the "Green Hornet - 68 Mustang"  IRS rear end to no avail. At least not enough to study that 9" pumpkin and the attached parts. It is attached to the car by a cradle that uses the stock leaf spring mounts. The hubs look different from jaguar units and the 8.8" Cobra system looks like it is copied from it.

I am very intrested in some more info about this rear suspension.

Anybody knows more then a google search can provide and is willing to share?

Thanks,

Mustsed


Nothing is impossible, some just cost more!
 

11/29/2012 4:17 pm  #2


Re: Green Hornet - 68 Mustang IRS info

Looks to be very similar to the T Bird IRS, with coils. A couple of things I read here is. "He then swapped out the live rear axle for an independent rear suspension based around a Ford 9-inch center section and a cradle that bolted into the rear leaf spring mounts."
Then this, Darrow and his son Randy would later confirm the Green Hornet’s identity with Fred Goodell and restore it using a scratch-built IRS built to Goodell’s specifications."

Then another article linked from the first. "Turns out, it was around all along--rather than being scrapped, it was sent to Ford's Employee and Auction Resale Lot in Dearborn. By the time it was in the yard, it was just an old Mustang: The special independent rear had been stolen and replaced with a bog-standard Fairlane axle, and the Conelec EFI had similarly been swiped and replaced with a police interceptor intake and four-barrel carb. The yard supervisor, Robert Zdanowski, bought it for $3,000 as a family car
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2006/09/01/hmn_feature1.html

IRS
http://images.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2012/09/ShelbyEXP500_05_1000-150x99.jpg


Page
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2012/09/07/the-green-hornet-shelbys-one-off-experimental-mustang-heads-to-auction/

Differential
Type: Ford 9-inch center section
Ratio: 3.00:1

Suspension
Rear: Fully independent; lower control arms; coil springs; telescoping shock absorbers; lateral links; anti-roll bar

Here I see an upper trailing link
http://images.motortrend.com/classic/c12_0601_16z_musclecar+1968_shelby_green_hornet_prototype+rear_suspension.jpg

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1190181541/1190295272/O-T-+Anyone+know+how+Shelby+designed+the+Green+Hornet+rear+suspension-

Here it seems to have been updated. Since I see a splined Halfshaft
http://www.saloncollection.com/2013/1968-shelby-green-hornet/1968-shelby-green-hornet-08.jpg

http://www.saloncollection.com/2013/1968-shelby-green-hornet/

http://forums.themustangsource.com/gallery/files/8/8/2/0/0/c12_0601_17z_musclecar_1968_shelby_green_hornet_prototype_vin_number.jpg

http://forums.themustangsource.com/f761/green-hornet-503623/

Dated pic
http://exp500.janriggert.com/facts.html

You Tube
MARCH LA.B - Shelby Green Hornet Limited Edition Swiss Watches at Watchismo.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1fvLvSzJhl8#!

http://67mustangblog.com/2012/08/1968-shelby-exp-500-green-hornet-to-go-under-the-hammer/

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/boss_302/big17.jpg

http://www.mocgb.net/forums/showthread.php?15828-most-expensive-mustang-coupe

Here's a pdf article I'll read later.
http://www.saloncollection.com/2013/1968-shelby-green-hornet/theGreenHornet-article.pdf

Maybe there's something in here you haven't seen!

Ralphy

Last edited by Ralphy (11/29/2012 10:42 pm)

 

11/30/2012 12:49 am  #3


Re: Green Hornet - 68 Mustang IRS info

Thanks Ralphy,

I've read them all and was looking for specs according the hubs and the way they are attached to the center section. In the stock configuration they look like the HS are acting as the UCA like on a Jaguar based system but the second with the splined HS must have an UCA of some kind.

Another point is that the front has a cradle that is attached to the front leaf spring mounts but there are no rear mounts visible. The shocks appear to be mounted in their stock locations and as an added bonus there is a sway bar!

The center section must be mounted on the top via a flange that may be welded to the housing . There looks to be a slight tip in the suspension travel to the rear as long as I can see.

I would love to re-construct one of tese!

Mustsed


Nothing is impossible, some just cost more!
     Thread Starter
 

11/30/2012 6:58 am  #4


Re: Green Hornet - 68 Mustang IRS info

As far as the HS inner mount what I think is refereed to as a stub axle, WOW, that could be fairly hard to make or expensive I would think. Second, there are IRS carriers made based on the the 9".  Then if you look at the last pic, I think you can see an upper link being used for support with a Jag style HS not splined. Hmmm....... Also referenced in one of the articles, it does say the setup was recreated with a T Bird hub carrier. Look at the last pic above, that sure does look like T Bird to me. I think some of the pics were taken at different times due to small changes I see. Example, it looks like in one pic a T Bird upper is used. Then in another it looks as if a 1" DOM tube was put in place. Apparently none are of the original.

Two points I don't like is the spring being so far inboard. Then the upper trailing link? Maybe they picked up on it's effectiveness being greater to the rear. However I see a Watts link working better in place. When you look at period IRS units you can see a learning curve the engineers went thru, don't you think?

Also I'm thinking maybe like you the rear assy. mount would be above the 9" carrier.

http://image.hotrod.com/f/techarticles/general/hrdp_1106_fifth_gen_camaro_parts_failure/36420351+w794/hrdp-1106-09+fifth-gen-camaro-parts-failure.jpg

"Kick some ass: At present, the only real fix for the marginal IRS is a beefier centersection. The Driveshaft Shop offers a conversion kit for installing a 9-inch Ford housing, 1,400hp, 31-spline drive axles, and a new one-piece aluminum driveshaft."

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/general/hrdp_1106_fifth_gen_camaro_parts_failure/photo_09.html#ixzz2DiNegQoF

Article
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/general/hrdp_1106_fifth_gen_camaro_parts_failure/viewall.html


Ralphy

Last edited by Ralphy (11/30/2012 7:24 am)

 

11/30/2012 8:02 am  #5


Re: Green Hornet - 68 Mustang IRS info

Some Corvette guys use a setup made by Dragvette, which uses a upper link/UCA supporting the weight. They remove the C clip from the stub axle allowing it to move freely. Some go thru the effort to use a splined HS. The Dragvette setup removes the camber change with equal length UCA/LCA to keep the tires flat against the pavement.

http://www.dragvette.com/6link_patent.jpg


Ralphy

Last edited by Ralphy (11/30/2012 8:08 am)

 

11/30/2012 3:45 pm  #6


Re: Green Hornet - 68 Mustang IRS info

I have to admit that it is a weierd setup and totally agree with the learning phases of the engineers that did it. The Black&white pic tells more about the setup then all other pics together.

Now I see how the cradle is made and goes along the rear frame rails. I've read that about the T-Bird hubs but was wondering what they used in '68 where no IRS T-Bird hubs where available?  Similarities to current offered aftermarket kits are seen but what is the link for that goes from the caliper upper bolt to the back of the car (doesn't look like the brake hose)?

I belive that they changed some features on that when they re-constracted it but how was the orginal one done?

And why didn't they use the Arning IRS that was already engineered?

Mustsed


Nothing is impossible, some just cost more!
     Thread Starter
 

11/30/2012 4:27 pm  #7


Re: Green Hornet - 68 Mustang IRS info

Hey Mustsed, look real good at the top of the coil spring in the last pic. Is it just me or does the pocket appear to be in front out of alignment?

The rearward link stabilizes the upright from the top. Trouble is it binds and twists the LCA rearward. Now did he do this from what was learned from the Mustang T5 design. Because what I see in my mind is, the more squat you get in that configuration the more anti- squat comes into play. The same for anti-dive.

That also is where I mentioned a Watts Link would have been beneficial.
http://s350.beta.photobucket.com/user/acmjg/media/MOV04917.mp4.html

*It looks to me as though Shelby Inc. built the design themselves with none of Fords help.
*The coil appears better than 50% inboard.
*Damper is laying over way to far.

Have you read about The Black Hornet Clone? I can't find any IRS pics.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQSklIaOqvW1T272PRkZGTycu0W4OBqcKPs34XzvPuz-b20K8eNNPpSkvxM2w


Ralphy

Last edited by Ralphy (11/30/2012 4:36 pm)

 

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