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I can pick up a set of used Dana 44 2.73:1 gears. Anyone know if they will fit a Jaguar center?
Shiny Side Up!
Bill
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I have also found a source for new Dana 44 2.73 gears. I assume these will work?
Shiny Side Up!
Bill
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Those are some STEEP gears!
Check your mounting bolt holes for the carrier. The JAG carrier and ring gear have 7/16 holes while every other Dana 44 has 1/2 holes. In short, I doubt it. With the right equipment though, anything can be made to work.
Worst case is, you need a new carrier.
Last edited by 303Radar (8/03/2012 10:03 am)
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303Radar wrote:
Those are some STEEP gears!
Check your mounting bolt holes for the carrier. The JAG carrier and ring gear have 7/16 holes while every other Dana 44 has 1/2 holes. In short, I doubt it. With the right equipment though, anything can be made to work.
Worst case is, you need a new carrier.
I am running a Richmond Gear 5-speed which uses a very low first gear and a 1 to 1 fifth gear. I am getting a Jag center that has 3.31 gears in it, but that's really a bit much with the Richmond.
Thanks!
Bill
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A 1:1 for fifth is pretty common on a transmission which isn't a 6 speed.
Depending on your tire size and the power curve on your engine, you might feel sluggish at highway speeds without downshifting. Unless you have short tires, you'd be at 1500 RPM @ 60 mph. Not to be critical, just an observation.
I like to play around on Randy's Ring and Pinion Calculators when I'm bored
Granted, on any kind of road/rally course, I doubt you'd go past third gear.
Which first gear setup did you get? From their application guide, looks like you can get as low as 4.41.
Sounds like a fun setup!
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I think most modern 5-speeds use an overdrive for fifth... I could, of course, be wrong! LOL
Torque is most definitely one of the specialties of the car I'm building! 454 with a roller hydraulic cam and port fuel injection.
I was originally building the car with a Ford 9". In fact, I just shipped off the 3.00 third member (I'm selling off the 9" to fund the IRS install).
Shiny Side Up!
Bill
Last edited by ProTouring442 (8/03/2012 3:44 pm)
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The fifth gear being a 1:1 is not uncommon. There is two ways to come up with a tall high gear. Overdrive the final drive faster than crank speed or the Doug Nash method 4+1 type 5 speeds with a very low first and a 1 to 1 fifth. This was to be used with a numerically low R and P set of 2.75:1 or lower. This gave the same wheel speed as a overdrive five speed with 3.75 rear end gears.
The 1 to 1 fifth trans is more efficient than an overdrive type trans due to the fact they do not spin the drive shaft faster than the crankshaft speed and therefore they do not suffer the frictional loss related to the act of over driving the mass of drive shaft and pinion. The decision to use taller rear end gears worked to improve the strength of the differential by the lower numeric R+P sets will generally have more teeth in contact at the same time. ie. a 3.0:1 may have 5 teeth engaged all the time but a 4.11:1 might have as few as 2.5 depending on how they go about obtaining the ratio. there are some small variations between manufacturers. Last of all the low numeric ratios are available in most wrecking yards that pedal early iron at dirt cheap prices.
Another benefit of the old 4+1 trans was the fact that they were all close ratio transmissions. The gears were as close as the old Muncie 21-22 close ratio boxes and that made them a serious contender on the drag strip. The old Muncie close ratio boxes were the closest ratio boxes ever built for our domestic market
With 2.20-1st, 1.64-2nd, 1.28-3rd and 1:1-4th the RPM drop between shifts were very small and that made them ideal for drag racing..
DNE or Doug Nash Engineering went out of business from the 4+3 trans fiasco they built for the Corvette that never lived up to expectations and turned out to be weak and therefore failure prone.
Richmond gear now owns DNE's old factory as well as their patents. Before their demise, DNE built a 6 speed out of the old 4+1 with an extra over driven gear. This was a very strong trans that shifted great but was too little too late to save the then finantionally doomed company. Today Richmond still builds 4+1 in both wide and close ratios as well as the 6 speed now called the ROD or Richmond over drive. These transmissions are based on the old DNE designs but will support near twice as much torque as the original designs.
Now back to the topic you started with, I am using a D 44 Jeep posi carrier with International Harvester3.50:1 gears and a companion flange that I made from scratch in a Jag XJ 6 differential housing. Its been a while but as I recall the Jag companion flange will not work on any D 44 pinion splines which is why I machined my own. However there are easier ways of attaching a drive shaft to a D 44 pinion. . Other than what I mentioned the only thing required was the bearings and seals, with shims and crush collar outlined by Daze in the original IRS forum. The only D44 ring and pinion that cannot be installed in a rear drive Jag housing is the ford reverse helix set for top pinion swing axle 4x4 D44's. The only things to look out for on carriers is the spline count in the side gears and getting the right series for the ratio gears you choose. The series indicates the off set of the mounting flange for the ring gear and that dictates which gears must be used on the carrier. There are three to choose from but I dont recall where the breaks occur in ratio's
I am pretty sure the Jag ring gear uses 3/8 bolts and the dana uses 7/16 so if you have a Jag carrier with 2.88:1 gears all you would need to install the gear ratio's you mentioned is to drill out your Jag carrier to accept the 7/16 bolts.. The series carrier that accepts 2.88's will accept the gears you want or even lower
Last edited by tyrellracing (8/05/2012 3:34 am)
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Great info! Thanks!!
The info you posted about the Richmond/Doug Nash is exactly why I chose that trans. The Richmond, with a 3.00 rear, has a 1st through 4th consistent with a M22 and a 4.56 !
I am in the process of purchasing a Jag center with 3.31 gears. these aren't ideal, but they will get me started. In the meantime I will keep on the lookout for a 2.88 Jag carrier, or a 2.73 Jeep/Dana 44 carrier.
I am also in the process of getting my C-4 Corvette axles, uprights, etc. I hope to have everything in the next couple of weeks. Once I sell a few more of my Ford 9" parts I be able to get my frame parts so I can start building. I'll be starting a build thread... accompanied by lots of questions I am sure!
Thanks for the info!
Bill
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tyrellracing wrote:
I am pretty sure the Jag ring gear uses 3/8 bolts and the dana uses 7/16 so if you have a Jag carrier with 2.88:1 gears all you would need to install the gear ratio's you mentioned is to drill out your Jag carrier to accept the 7/16 bolts.. The series carrier that accepts 2.88's will accept the gears you want or even lower
Hi guys I'm new here but have been a Jag guy for years.
It's the other way around the Jag uses 7/16 and the Dana 44 is 3/8. I have seen guys use bushes in the Jag hemishphere and then use 3/8 bolts, don't much like this myself.
Also there is a Volvo pinion Yoke that will bolt to the jag driveshaft and Dana pinion don't know what Model it's off I was at my diff guy last week and he had another Jag diff he was putting Dana gear set in and said he used this Volvo yoke.
cheers
Warren
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I can say for certain that my Series 1 Jag has 7/16 carrier and ring bolts. I measured before ordering a 30 spline Power Lock carrier for the 30 spline half shafts.
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My bad It has been too long ago but I knew they were not the same I just got it backwards. However I am sure that the Jag units use a coarse spline stub axle. Unless you can find 30 spline stub axles you need to find the early coarse spline side gear carrier. When I overhauled my differential I went with all dana internals so I did not have to worry about bolting up the worthless 2.88 gears to my series 2 locking carrier. I just tossed the open carrier and 2.88 gear set in the scrap pile and didnt look back.
Thats got to be a rare yoke on a metric volvo to work on a standard (inch) Dana 30 spline pinion. I would like to see what kind of fit that combination produced.
Finding Dana Yokes are easy, look under any 4x4 truck equiped with a D44 and you will find a yoke The D44 has been used in so many applications that finding the 30 spline yoke in all common u-joint sizes is easy as well. . Best of all nearly all of them (except the earliest versions) use the seal that Daze described in the early forum. However a companion flange like Jag uses is another deal entirely. To the best of my knowledge there were no D44's originally set up with a 30 spline companion flange that is compatible with the Jag unit ever built. There may be an obscure Dana 208 or maybe 203 transfer case with a 30 spline front drive companion flange that would have to be modified to work but I doubt it.
Since I did not want to use a yoke with their cheesy u-bolts I chose to machine a 30 spline companion flange and posted pictures of it over a year ago. The companion flange method of mounting u-joints is considered superior to the yoke and U-bolt method for many reasons. U-joint cap distortion is one of the most prominent. Most vehicle manufacturors abandoned the yoke and U-bolt method years ago
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19 spline is stock and I meant stub not half shafts for my 30 spline. I wouldn't know where to get the 30 spline any more. Much less chro-moly 30 spline stubs. The last guy I knew who sold them went out of business.
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303Radar wrote:
19 spline is stock and I meant stub not half shafts for my 30 spline. I wouldn't know where to get the 30 spline any more. Much less chro-moly 30 spline stubs. The last guy I knew who sold them went out of business.
I would think that any competent axle maker could make the stubs in 30 spline.
Shiny Side Up!
Bill
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I am not sure where but I think some one in this forum had found a set or found a machinist that made a pair of the heavy duty 30 spline stub axles for the Jag application. The fine spline axle is a more modern method of axle manufacturing and is far stronger than the old square cut coarse splines. Not only that they are easier to cut and there fore cheaper for Dana or any one else to make.
All that aside I have a 600 hp 408 Cleveland stroker with a two stage nitrous system in front of my Jag differential with 19 spline stub axles and have yet to snap any hard parts.
One important thing you should know: The outer stub axles need to have a .0625 radius cut where the threads meet the sharp step for the splines before they get abused by the torque coming out of your 454. This will shorten the splines by aprox. .080 but that is not a problem. This is a common failure point in stock form however the radius seems to solve the problem.
I agree that any competent axle manufacturer should be capable of making heavy duty 30 spline Jag stub axles from a 4x4 axle blanks they normally keep in stock. My guess is they will be kind of expensive but some times that is the price for peace of mind.
Last edited by tyrellracing (8/07/2012 5:28 pm)