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Here's a good pic of a C3 using an upper link to take the load off the half shaft. Along with splined half shafts. Also the chassis using a composite dual mounted spring. This type of mounting allows the springs center section to bend in the opposite direction. In turn you get an anti sway bar effect from this design. You can see the bend in the center even when the suspension is unloaded. The mounts are also adjustable in and out.
Last edited by Ralphy (4/11/2012 7:21 pm)
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Karsten is doing some very nice work there.
Here is my "Jim's Giovanni"I was building before the IRS "revolution!
The improvements in camber control are obvious below:
Here is a clip from an article in the early 80's:
What the system doesn't do -- control the toe angle that gets all out of whack due to the trailing arm set up.
I'm eliminating that with the Wishbones. More later.
Cheers - Jim
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C3 conversion design in a Cheetah.
Last edited by Ralphy (6/25/2012 11:07 am)
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Foose C4
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1963 Grand Sport
Grand Sport Restorations
Last edited by Ralphy (6/27/2012 10:32 pm)
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Very informative, as well as providing diverse interpretations in improving what at the time Zora Arkus Duntov designed it was way ahead of the curve, and was a wake up call for the competition. The Dick Guldstrand package appears to be closest to what is needed for my application: C3 IRS to '57 Chevy PU, should that option be taken. Mr Guldstand personally responded to my call this speaks volumes as to the integrity of Mr. Guldstrand and his firm.
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It appears the C2 and C3 rear roll center is 7.56 inches. You can see the numbers well enough if you select view and zoom several times. Front RC looks to be 3.25. There my be two different roll centers on the C3 since it has two different HS lengths.
This article mentions lowering the RC by adding a 1/2" spacer. Pg. 46 & 47.
Ralphy
Last edited by Ralphy (7/01/2012 8:03 am)
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CERV 1 was the test bed for the C2 IRS design.
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Blackstone Race Cars custom IRS in a C3.
The carrier is a Strange 12 bolt. The case is a Strange 9" housing designed to hold a 12 bolt carrier, then narrowed with Strange inner axles. The rear portion of the housing is fabricated steel, X10 material. Half shafts are 4".
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Walter Korff has the C2 diagram in his, Designing Tomorrow's Cars as well as a C3 Roll Center Diagram.
I'll scan and post the C3 image later in this thread.
The C3 is shown as having a 3.25 inch RC Above Ground Level (AGL), and the rear at 4.71 inches AGL.
John Giovanni patented a modification to the C3 which is fairly easily replicated by many -- including me. Its big advantages:
1. Removing the half shafts as loaded members of the suspension, and
2. Variable placement of the Roll Center - here shown with unequal/parallel control arms.
I have my measurements posted elsewhere in the forum.
It does however, retain the Trailing Arms - which add an unfortunate Toe-In/Out contribution to the suspension.
Cheers - Jim
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Phantomjock,
I forgot to mention there are two HS lengths as far as I know on the C3. My guess is the two have different roll centers. I'm going to update my post.
You know what? I just looked at that Grand Sport IRS pic again. The camber rods look to be much higher at the carrier. Is that maybe the high RC PJ? Then if you look at the pic in this pdf file on page 46. The middle camber rod bracket 80 82 looks to be upside down again raising the inner pivot point. I'm confused? The so called 80 82 bracket looks to put the location similar to the Grand Sport location. Which to me should be a higher RC.
Ralphy
Last edited by Ralphy (7/01/2012 9:36 am)
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I get 32 pages total on the pdf so couldn't get "exactly" to #46 - but I did review and think I get your meaning.
(Somewhere in my closet are all the originals of those cut ans saved from Corvette Fever in the 80s!)
The VIP, Greenwood, and Herb Adams upgrades all mentioned lowering the Lower Strut Rod Mount using spacers. For my Giovanni, I originally built a new Lower Strut Mount out of some 3x3 channel and drilled lower holes to effectively do the same thing. I was interested in zeroing out Camber change on the outside wheel - which you can tailor. But that damn Toe was still there!
I think there was a change in HS length during the C3 - to C4 transition. May have been in c3s too, I'd have to do some research.
Cheers - Jim
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The guys at VetteMod said there were two C3 lengths app 1/2" difference. The page # I refereed to is the article page not the pdf page. Anyhow you've got it.
Ralphy
Last edited by Ralphy (7/01/2012 7:46 pm)
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Ralphy wrote:
Is this guy asking for trouble? Those coilover mounts, Hmmm........
Pro Squat anyone?
This should maybe be titled, how not to do it. Look at the trailing links in the upper photo. Wheels hanging, it still appears they are lower in front.
Not to mention the huge bending force put on the bolts that hold the trailing arms to the uprights!
Shiny Side Up!
Bill
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WOW! I was waiting for someone to point out the coilovers. I see an aluminum fracture on the upright sooner than later.
Are you planning on keeping the toe rods the same length as the C4 or will you go shorter to remove the roll steer/ bump steer?
Ralphy
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WOW! I was waiting for someone to point out the coilovers. I see an aluminum fracture on the upright sooner than later.
Are you planning on keeping the toe rods the same length as the C4 or will you go shorter to remove the roll steer/ bump steer?
Ralphy
Yeah, they aren't exactly mounted well either, are they? LOL
And yet all that extra strength added to the batwing.
Shiny Side Up!
Bill
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Maybe if he had a bracket tying the coilover mount to the trailing links?
This would be the end at app. 60 MPH!
Ralphy
Last edited by Ralphy (8/07/2012 1:48 pm)
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C5 In A Delahaye
Ralphy
Last edited by Ralphy (8/07/2012 6:34 pm)
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Street Shop Inc. C4 Billet Rear 
Street Shop Inc.
C5 and C6 Suspension
for your 1953-1982 Corvette
Repalcement 1953-1982 Corvette Chassis by Street Shop Inc.
Last edited by Ralphy (9/05/2012 9:56 pm)
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I found this at the Vettemod board.
Thank You Vettemod and Groovyjay.
Evolution Of The 5-link Suspension For The C3 Corvettes
Pics, 6 pages
!i=2039250463&k=FfwX9LB
I came across more images of Guldstrand's RPF 5 link design. It may appear the trailing links are not equal length but I think they are. It also appeared the coilover is being used and not the leaf spring.
More Pics
Ralphy
Last edited by Ralphy (9/10/2012 10:10 pm)
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1969 TVR Tuscan V6 Race Car with a C3 carrier. From Britishracecar.com
Bind?
Last edited by Ralphy (9/12/2012 5:04 am)
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OH - you almost got me on that one Ralphy!
Its a, "Chevrolet Corvette quick change rear end with limited slip differential." Gee, I didn't know that's what I have too.
- the upright is also Custom, but a welded Aluminum Upright. Very nice however. Nice Slip yoke half shafts too.
Cheers - Jim
Last edited by phantomjock (9/12/2012 1:47 pm)
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I don't know about any bind but I'd be worried about shearing off those wheel studs as there are only four. If the goal was to cruise and have some fun on a light weight car, four might do the job. But on most any other application, it is just a matter of time before he leaves a tire.
It's funny to watch as long as the driver comes out fine.
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I forget who/manufacture made the uprights. They may be Triumph. TVR did use other manufactures parts.The quick change statement?
TVR Tuscan, Mid Ohio 2011 SVRA
Last edited by Ralphy (9/12/2012 5:31 pm)
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Fifth-Gen Camaro Suspension - Suspension 101
Ralphy
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Original Guldstrand C2/C3 conversion. It's also for sale
Last edited by Ralphy (4/14/2013 3:50 am)
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Here's a neat Sub Frame on a 60s Custom vette. Uses the Jag components in a billet milled subframe:
Another view:
And the builder was clever enough to follow through on the FRS as well:
Well thought out and designed suspension sustem - well integrated components including coil overs, Rack and Piniion, etc:
These last 2 could be in the FRS thread as well - but thought nice fit here too.
Cheers - Jim
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Here are some Dimensions I'm trying to source - been all over the web and these are hard top find - it is the C5/C6:
ANy help VERY Much Appreciated!
Cheers Jim
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Jim the rear is actually a quick change.
Here's a neat Sub Frame on a 60s Custom vette. Uses the Jag components in a billet milled subframe:
Another view:
And the builder was clever enough to follow through on the FRS as well:
Well thought out and designed suspension sustem - well integrated components including coil overs, Rack and Piniion, etc:
These last 2 could be in the FRS thread as well - but thought nice fit here too.
Cheers - Jim
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I've been looking for some Gen 5 differential dimensions as shown
