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4/23/2012 1:32 pm  #1


IRS in the front?

As i was gathering information today i found this forum and joined so that i can pick your brains. I know this is not what you guys are into but i thought i would give it a try.
I would like to build an IFS 4x4 system using something along the lines of a jag, rx7, supra IRS system. It will be going into a suzuki sidekick that is already 4 wheel drive. The reason i would like to use an irs is that i want more wheel travel and irs rear ends are much narrower than than pretty much all ifs front ends. When i say narrower i mean the width from flange to flange on the carrier. They will also probably provide more strength than the sidekick can provide. When i do decide on one i will be looking for pretty much the lowest gearing possible (numerically high), to counteract larger tires. If you guys have any input on problems that i might run into, or can help me in any way please help i am just trying to get started here.
Thanks
Steven

 

4/23/2012 4:15 pm  #2


Re: IRS in the front?

Most Jag rear ends can be fitted with dana 44 gears so you should easily be able to get reverse cut gears for the unit.  Mounting the pumpkin is relatively straight forward.  I do however see is a couple of big issues.  the first is getting it to steer.  The hubs and LCA would need to totally be reworked to make them pivot.  the second issue I see is if you need it to steer the half shaft can no longer serve as the UCA, which would mean having to come up with some sort of upper control arm.  I guess if I was going to do what you want to do I would mount the differential, and then fab up everything else from scratch.  Its doable but I am not sure if it is the best plan of attack


If it isn't broken..... modify it anyway!!!!
 

4/24/2012 2:26 am  #3


Re: IRS in the front?

Just a thought.
I bet one of the simplest IRS to adapt to a 4x4 system would be the Corvette C5/6. 
The IRS is set up basically like the IFS - Ball joints etc. Remove the  Toe Control and replace with Tie Rods. 
Just an idea - the C5/6 can be had for about $1500 hub to hub. 

Cheers - Jim


UNDERCONSTRUCTION! Highly Modified C3 Corvette
         Dual Wishbone IRS w Subframe + Custom Uprights
 

4/24/2012 11:11 am  #4


Re: IRS in the front?

I would expect lots of work to get the caster/camber angles set correctly if adapting a IRS to an IFS.
I would think that most trucks with IFS use a similar gear diameter for strength as they do in the rear.  However, I don't know what it would take to narrow an IFS.  Might be best to custom fab the upper and lower control arms but I have no idea how best to narrow the half shafts with reliability.
No matter what you chose to go with for your front, you've got lots of fab work in your future.
Best of luck!!!

 

4/24/2012 8:20 pm  #5


Re: IRS in the front?

what do you mean when you say that i should get reverse cut gears.
The transfer case is going to spin the front driveshaft the opposite direction of the rear and since the diff is facing backwards it should be rotating the correct way right?
I was planning on hacking all of the existing front end, and building custom (longer) UCA, LCA, tie rods, ball joints and shock towers.
I am not sure how the hub unit is going to work and i want something pretty strong so that i dont have to worry about breaking anything.
I may have to adapt a truck hub unit to a car irs assembly.
I have increasing access to a tube bender, tube notcher and a plasma cam and haven't done anything cool with them yet.

     Thread Starter
 

4/24/2012 8:33 pm  #6


Re: IRS in the front?

No that would be right, the diff would need to run in reverse. Unless the pinion were up top. Then you would have oiling problems. Hmmm........
CV joints would also be a must.

Ralphy

Last edited by Ralphy (4/24/2012 8:35 pm)

 

4/25/2012 5:56 am  #7


Re: IRS in the front?

Reverse cut gears are something that Ford popularized, I think starting in the late 70's. Before then and after, standard gears were commonly used in the front. You have to think about it a little to get your head around it, but if you spin the axle around the ring is on the opposite side of the diff and runs it in the opposite direction, so it all works out. What Ford did was a re-design for a high-pinion housing that improved the front driveshaft angle. Remember, driveline angle plays a part here and the front driveshaft is fighting it going downhill to the front. So the high pinion improved NVH and u-joint life. (Incidentally, I have a reverse cut 3.54 Dana 44 set if anyone needs them) CV joints in the front driveshaft are another common solution.

You might be better advised to start with the spindles from an IRS 4x4 truck and work inward. I think it will probably be easier that way if you can find something that uses "A" arms already. Though the Vette set up may work also I'd be a little concerned about the strength of the cartridge bearings when you go mounting your 30"+ wheels and tires and hitting the woods, cliffs, and mud pits. You want something that won't break first and foremost, so bigger is better in this case. Also, since your big wheels/tires are going to stick outside the bodywork some anyway, it is worth considering going a little wider. With independent, if you can get wheels that are offset deeply to the outside it means more room for the control arms. Sometimes a LOT more room, and that can really make a big difference both in suspension travel, and in your selection of a donor axle. With the right wheels and the right donor you might not have to narrow the IFS at all. Of course this raises an issue with lockout hub choice but the newer designs commonly use an automatic hub that doesn't project as far as the older designs so there may be something out there that works just fine.

Jim

 

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