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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » 2. gen to 1. gen parts interchange! » 4/16/2022 10:53 pm

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Hi everybody,  

Does anybody happen to know if the internals of a 2. gen Jaguar IRS  (XJ40) are the same or will fit a 1. gen  IRS? I have a 2. gen laying around and a 1. gen comming in. The 2. gen has Power Lock and 3.54;1 gears wich will help alot in my overdrive 4R70W tranny. 
Do these parts interchange?

Thanks,
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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Second Generation Jaguar IRS any good? » 4/04/2022 7:15 am

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Hi everybody,

Been a long time since i posted here but the last few years are the once i wish i never lived!

Anyhow, now i am adviced to do something good and clear my mind - Working on old metal!

I have a spare almost complete 2nd gen. Jaguar IRS with the Power Lock option and can not decide what to do with it. Also happen to have a '63 Fairlane 4dr daily driver that might need IRS.
Anybody on here have installed one of these with success?  

Thanks,

Mustsed

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Newb advice » 4/04/2022 7:05 am

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Hi all,

Looks like alot of work is stuck in there! Hope you post pics while going.

agree with phatomjock;
DAZE - thanks for keeping the site open!  It is the best single source on the interweb for IRS.

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Bolt pattern » 9/04/2017 8:19 am

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Hi Seim55,

Did something similar on a 8" ford axle. The machine shop turned down the flange where the lug studs used to be and welded on a new turned one with the correct bolt pattern. They heated up the axle while welding the flange, a few minutes on the lathe and it was done. Pretty sure the car still has this axle in use!

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » To bush or not to bush an IRS? » 8/27/2017 11:51 am

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Hello and Hi to everybody on here!

I am a long time member of this very very helpfull forum but had health problems with my father so not much time to be here enough. I did a bunch of Jaguar IRS installs in all kinds of Ford vehicles and had never a complaint or problem with any of them. I changed all the installs to the cage type a la Daze and they are performing well. On the success stgories page, there is a burgundy '68 Mustang pictured which was one of my first or second install. 2 weeks ago I got the car back for some maintenance (after 4-5 years of hard abused driving) and started checking all and everything.
I noticed cracks in the cover sheet metal around the top IRS center mount bolt holes (ı used the stock Jaguar center mounting plate). After investigating the whole unit, it appears to be caused because the cage is mounted via bushings to the frame, the trailing arms are independantly mounted to the frame via harder bushings with less "give" then the cage bushings! The difference in "plays must have caused the cracking visible in the pics?!?! The center pieces is not stable in the bottom (because of the bushings) and tilts sightly front to back which in my situation causes the cracks. After further inspection I decided to remove the cage and mount all tie mounts to the cage itself, eliminating any and all play caused by the bushings "give". Hope I could explain the problem.
The drawback is that I had to run the new crossmember below the mustangs rear frame rails which makes them a little more visible. Now I just loosen the driveshaft, brake lines/e brake cable and the cage to lower the whole unit as one piece from the car if need arrises.

Just wanted to share!
Mustsed

https://image.ibb.co/cb57z5/20170529_135401.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/chFUCQ/20170529_135420.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/gfzNXQ/20170613_103342.jpg

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Newb questions on changing gears in an XJS differential for a MGB V8 » 2/17/2015 2:39 pm

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Copied this from the early IRS threads;

 -  NOTE 04/09/10 It was recently brought to my attention by Sedat Yalcin that the above information only applies to Dana 44 carriers.  If  you are using the original Jaguar carrier you need to be aware of three different carriers.  The 2.88:1 carrier will only work with  2.88:1 ring and pinion.  If you have a 2.88:1 carrier and want a lower ratio you must change the carrier or buy a custom "THICK" gear.  After getting this information I confirmed it by contacting Mike at  CWI and he added that  Jaguar made there break between low and midrange ratio at 3.54:1 and 3.76:1.  The important thing to keep in mind when deciding weather you need the parts set up for high  or low ratios (excluding the 2.88:1)  is not weather the carrier is Jaguar or Dana 44 but weather the ring and pinion are Jaguar or Dana 44.  If the ring and pinion is Jaguar, regardless of weather  the carrier is Jaguar or Dana the break in ratios is between 3.54:1 and 3.76:1.  But in reverse if the ring and pinion is Dana, regardless of weather  the carrier is Jaguar or Dana the break in ratios is between 3.73:1 and 3.92:1.

 

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » BMW IRS and MGB » 4/30/2014 1:20 am

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Hi gravesgrg,

I guess the main problem would be the narrow mounting points of the IRS causing alot of stress in that area which might cause cracks. BMW's are known for that kind of cracks in the rear suspenssion area. I choosed the Jaguar because of the wide spreaded mounting possibility which gives some stiffness.  One more reason to choose the Jaguar IRS was the availability of ring&pinion gears in any imaginable size which shoould be a lack with BMW.

Just my 2 cents,

Mustsed

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » 66 mustang IRS » 2/01/2013 9:35 am

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Hi everybody,

The problem is that I can't take pics and work at the same time!!!!!!!!

The system I use is the same on all of them except the first two. The pics of the red rear end in another post on here is the last end easiest system I do. I really have no pics of the other installs and never tought of doing an article about them.

My son took a few pics of my own rear end that will be dropped ca.2" and I will share pics when I am done with it.

Daze, did you leave that  spacer in there or do you change the bolt pattern? That is now a problem for me and the dropped cage. 

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » 66 mustang IRS » 1/29/2013 3:43 am

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Hi everybody,

Never tought that a human kidney could set one out of live that long - what a pain but luckily a wil be on here more regular as before.

Welcome on board Yolo, you've just found the only IRS dedicated understandable forum on the www.

I have done 6 Jaguar IRS rear ends into 5 Mustang's and 1 F-100. The first and second (Mustang & F100) was installed using a crossmember on top between the frames and a second crossmember in front of the Jag IRS to have some points to install the differential and the trailing arms to. The rest used the cage a la Daze! 

I have the dimensions for a Mustang and can make a frame cage without having the car here to work on. All other brands that ask for such a cage  must have the car available to me so I can take meassurements.

NONE of the owners would ever go back to a straight axle when compared to the IRS. The cars handle much more stable and even maintain grip on high speed driving. Never had an issue with ground clearance but the stock Jaguar had the same hight also!?!? If you look from the back of a Jaguar IRS car, it SEEMS the car is lower but it is not. I have done the cage on my own '67 Mustang recessed so it will drop an additional 2".

If you read trough the post on here, you get very close to the right adjustments which are more accurate then the Mustang units had ever been. 

I agree that the Jaguar IRS might not be the "best" IRS out there but it is cheap, available, parts are easy to get or to make and most off all - affordable (even here in Turkey). 

Would I do it again? YES (anytime / anywhere)

I also look into other IRS units from BMW, Honda or Nissan but they are more work to install and more expensive (at least over here).

I have two more Jaguar IRS units in the garage and waiting for gears and a lock to fit them in one more Mustang and a '56 Victoria.

I am not affiliated with Jaguar :-)))

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Green Hornet - 68 Mustang IRS info » 11/30/2012 3:45 pm

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I have to admit that it is a weierd setup and totally agree with the learning phases of the engineers that did it. The Black&white pic tells more about the setup then all other pics together.

Now I see how the cradle is made and goes along the rear frame rails. I've read that about the T-Bird hubs but was wondering what they used in '68 where no IRS T-Bird hubs where available?  Similarities to current offered aftermarket kits are seen but what is the link for that goes from the caliper upper bolt to the back of the car (doesn't look like the brake hose)?

I belive that they changed some features on that when they re-constracted it but how was the orginal one done?

And why didn't they use the Arning IRS that was already engineered?

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Green Hornet - 68 Mustang IRS info » 11/30/2012 12:49 am

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Thanks Ralphy,

I've read them all and was looking for specs according the hubs and the way they are attached to the center section. In the stock configuration they look like the HS are acting as the UCA like on a Jaguar based system but the second with the splined HS must have an UCA of some kind.

Another point is that the front has a cradle that is attached to the front leaf spring mounts but there are no rear mounts visible. The shocks appear to be mounted in their stock locations and as an added bonus there is a sway bar!

The center section must be mounted on the top via a flange that may be welded to the housing . There looks to be a slight tip in the suspension travel to the rear as long as I can see.

I would love to re-construct one of tese!

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Green Hornet - 68 Mustang IRS info » 11/29/2012 2:30 pm

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Hi everybody,

Been trying  to get some info about the "Green Hornet - 68 Mustang"  IRS rear end to no avail. At least not enough to study that 9" pumpkin and the attached parts. It is attached to the car by a cradle that uses the stock leaf spring mounts. The hubs look different from jaguar units and the 8.8" Cobra system looks like it is copied from it.

I am very intrested in some more info about this rear suspension.

Anybody knows more then a google search can provide and is willing to share?

Thanks,

Mustsed

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Thanks Daze! » 9/10/2012 11:56 am

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Hi everybody,

I thing that the idea of a cage mounted to the stock leaf mounts is a great idea and therefore needs to be credited to you Daze because I cought it from you!

Yes there are sme differences mainly because of time limitations and I only got 5 days to work on that car. Ford tolerances are more then I tought when using my own '67 as a jig for the cage. I had planned to mount a section of  U channel to the front leaf spring bolts and then use some bushings on the CM ends to hold it there. Have done them but no time to make it to the car again. So it will wait a bit more till they will bolt on the car. I can't remember from where I got the 3 upper shock mount bosses idea but they allow a bit of adjustability up there. 
I did the trailing arms at home and send them to a mechanic who installed them but they will be replaced by threaded rods with adjustable joints that are sold by Kugel ($55 a piece - that hurts). If I can talk the owner to lift the car up and take some pics of them, I will post them here. All in all he is very very happy with how the car handles and stays on the road as it never did before!!!!
The plates form a rectangle at the end of the lower control arm which stiffens up the mount boss / tube / fork triangle.

The preparation took a few months but the installation was not a big of a deal (except the variable meassurments on these Mustangs and the extra work that show up because of this) and I think that it is worth every cent invested.

Mustsed

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Thanks Daze! » 9/07/2012 1:24 am

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Hi everybody,

It's been quite a while since I started this thread and promissed more pics back then. Finally I got around to sort the pics and below are a few more. I will leave them without comments but should there questions araise, I will be happy to answer them.

I am in the process of installing my own Jaguar IRS with outboard brakes into my '67 Mustang. Have it all mocked up but the car sits way to high so I have to re-arrange the cage a bit. Will start a new ppost with that later.

Mustsed

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/mustsed/04300020.jpg


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/mustsed/05110005.jpg


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/mustsed/06100014.jpg


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/mustsed/06150013.jpg


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/mustsed/06260005.jpg


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/mustsed/06260011.jpg


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/mustsed/06260032.jpg


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/mustsed/06260009.jpg


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/mustsed/06260027.jpg


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/mustsed/06260040.jpg


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/mustsed/DSCN2949.jpg


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/mustsed/DSCN2948.jpg


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/mustsed/DSCN2935.jpg

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Jag IRS rebuild questions » 7/10/2012 10:48 am

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This should help a lot!

http://home.bresnan.net/~dazed/JaguarIRS4.html

At least it did when I was rebuilding one differential like Daze.

Mustsed

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Thanks Daze! » 7/10/2012 1:10 am

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Thanks you very much for creating this board, for sharing your knowladge and helping out people that are a way far away.

Finally I did the first "Subframed a la Daze" IRS build into a '68 Mustang hardtop. The installation went smooth and easy but because of time limit I had to stop working on it and will be back at the car 2 weeks later. Meanwhile they do the Exhaust and A/C so I can make a final check of the complete car.

Just during the installation I noticed that I forgot my file with the Jaguar data at home (800 km away) so the best ting was to contact the nearest (8000 miles) gearhead which was Daze. He send me the data the same day and I could continue to work on the car - Thanks again Daze!

Below are some pics of the car andthe IRS. I have more pics but none of the entire setup. Will take some when I'm there again. If someone needs detail pics, I have a bunch of them.

Mustsed from Turkey

http://i49.tinypic.com/2dkg1gi.jpg


http://i50.tinypic.com/2j1k56g.jpg


http://i48.tinypic.com/4gkqy8.jpg

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Theoretical IRS » 4/25/2012 9:22 am

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Hi everybody,

I had that idea years ag but instead of using upper and lower control arms I just tought of using a complete front end off of a big FWD Van!

Fabbing a system to keep them straight, making a LCA pivot point and a strut rod for it. On top you just verify the location of the strut shock and make an adjustable plate to place it. There will still be the need for a differential but that won't be to difficult.

Would love to see this done.

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Daze, may I ask you a question............................... » 1/01/2012 2:40 pm

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according getting lost here  ?!?!?!

Don't know how to ask this right but will try to. How do I find a post with pictures that I've seen here before but can't locate it now? Lets say it was a post from daze with a pic of his IRS setup but not in his own post, instead as an answer to someone - How can I find that post/pic on here?

We have a Mustang forum here and have a section named "member's albums" where you can find all posts related to a special memeber, in our case it would be Daze. All pics on his build would be pposted there and every member that need some visiual inspiration could look up there or fallow it from there.

Just an idea,

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Multi Board IRS Searchers. » 11/23/2011 3:42 pm

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Please do not forget that forums that are categorized might be good for the group that is in each individual group but will stop trading ideas from each group into another. What I'm trying to say is that sometimes I take an idea from a Cobra IRS or a BMW IRS and apply it to a Jaguar IRS because I can fallow it in this ONE forum instead of browsing all forums for which I don't have the time. IMHO I believe that each group will beat their system to dead and after a while just repeat their info to newcomers.
Not so with new systems introduced to everybody on this one forum where anybody can chime in and put some salt into the soup.

That's just my point and my view to this.

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » IRS in 67 mustang » 11/14/2011 9:32 am

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So what am I missing? Is this trailing arm a special alloy that expands when in motion or what. When I look at the product pics, I see two arc's that don't match and cause a bind during suspension travel. Is this a rear toe-in that uses the chemical give of the lower control arm?

I am sure that I'm missing something but don't know what it is.

Heidt's advertises them for 65-70 Mustang's too.

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » XJ40 IRS into an Aussie falcon » 11/12/2011 2:46 pm

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So, there I am in the same boat as KLR250!!

All attempt to locate a first gen. Jaguar  IRS for a friends '68 Mustang failed! The only Jaguar IRS that could be located is a second gen. assembly (according a telephone call with the owner and his description). Never paid attention to these units but looks like they will work too.

How are these differentials called and what kind of locking carrier works for them? What kind of spring/shock are you going to use? How wide are these and can they be shortened or did you shorten them? These are the questions in my mind and am not able to find these on the www.

I have no way to see that part before purchase and still looking for someone who could take some pics and send them to me but would be great if KLR250 would chime in and give some info on the 2.gen. Jaguar IRS.

Thanks in advance!

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » when is the performance upgrade of a basic IRS install enough ... » 11/03/2011 10:01 am

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I have my Mustang since 1989 and most of the time it has been sitting in the garage and having updates done to it. Lot of these upgrades are removed because they didn' work out as well as tought!!!!  Anyhow, the car is really a million decades away from the stock factory configuration and drives great. It should be enough but the government forces me to do my last two mods. The first is for the high gas prices over here = EFI and the second is for the mountain roads over here = IRS. I will stop doing anything besides regular maintenance to my '67 Mustang.

The reason why we do it is = because we can do it!!  Spending hours in the garage or shop to improve something nobody except yourself will notice. That's why it has to have a end!! I love my car and have to son's waiting for me to pass it over to them. The last few years I am looking for a 4 door big Ford which will only get good brakes, good steering and some comfort items like A/C - that's it!

And now to your points;
1.  Top of the hub watts link
**To much distance to the LCA hub pivot point, braking and accel might cause to much stress on LCA bushings.

2.  Watts link in place of trailing arms
** That's what I'm doing or plan to do!

3.  Linear anti-squat adjustments.  In other words being able to set the suspension to have a consistent rearward travel through the full range of  suspension motion.
** My car will have a hard short travel and I don't think that this will be a problem therefore ditch any mod according this.

4.  Reactive anti-squat.  In other words anti-squat that is initiated by hard acceleration or extreme suspension travel.
** Same as #3 answer.

5.  Rear steer created by slight toe adjustment due to extreme suspension movement
** Don't thing that this will something  I will considering to adjust.

6.  Tubular LCAs
** Stock jaguar's are tubular .

7.  Inboard disc brakes or outboard disc brakes?
** This is a missing visual expectation on open wheels therefore I did it on my setup. This car is

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Hey Ralphy, take a look at this IRS(we have seen it in several posts ) » 11/02/2011 10:52 am

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Hi everybody,

First of all I would like to mention that "Steer" is something different for me then a degree of toe-in or toe-out. The germans had a bunch of cars that should get rear steering axles and that was what I am refering to.  Sorry for the mis-understanding!

On the other way I can see that there is a minimal "steer" in the back but how much will it effect a normal driven classic car? On the other hand, an IRS by itself is an update in driving comfort and performance increase more than one can imagine. After driving the '67 Mustang I installed the first Jaguar IRS into, I tought it is a totally different car and has nothing to do with the old Mustang we used to drive.
My own '67 has all roller front end, roller 5.0 engine, AOD tranny, PS gear box out of a New car, performance suspension and now goes in a Jaguar IRS. I thing after all this there shouldn't be the need for toe change in the back in a 44b year old Mustang IMHO. Before the IRS the Mustang was a blast to drive and it can only become better with IRS. There has to be an end sometime on the modification list I wrote 20 years ago ;-))))))


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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Can this be done ??? » 11/01/2011 2:14 pm

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Alot of parts have to be custom made or at least the parking brake cables have to. To much hassle for such a small advantage.

I like the idea of welding the holes and redrilling with the new bolt patern. This will give the best result and I can use the added space for deeeeeeeeeper dish wheels!

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Can this be done ??? » 11/01/2011 1:50 pm

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Tought of that and alot other ways but what about the emergency brake setup inside the rotor?

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Hey Ralphy, take a look at this IRS(we have seen it in several posts ) » 11/01/2011 9:53 am

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Ralphy, If they turn in the same direction, you wouldn't be able to make a U turn but go sideways. There has to be a changeover from slow speed (opposite turning front&rear wheels) to higher speed (both wheels turn into same direction)!

If they only turn the wheels on higher speed driving and keep them streight locked in slow speeds, then it is useless IMHO.

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Narrowest Jag rearend » 11/01/2011 9:48 am

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Hi everybody,

I don't know what JEM is planing to do and why he might need the weights for the parts but my guess is that he is planing to install IRS into a smaller car !?!?!?

I didn't get the funds or time to do it but had the idea of transplanting the whole front suspension of a heavy front wheel drive car to the rear of another car less the steering parts. That means that you end up with the struds, spindles and halfshafts. You build the lower control arms, strud mounts and trailing arms around a suitable differential.  You end up with a easy to build, full travel adjustable IRS.  Maybe a big Diesel Van spindle donor caould also be positioned behind a V8 powered Dana44 or even a 9"!!

Just dreaming.................
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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Hey Ralphy, take a look at this IRS(we have seen it in several posts ) » 11/01/2011 9:19 am

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BTW, to get back to the orginal post!

How areyou going to steer the rear wheels?

In very slow motion they have to turn opposite the front wheels tu make turning radius smaller but at higher speeds they have to turn same with the front wheels to chage a lane for example - how will this be controlled at what speed and how much rear wheel turn for how much front wheel turn?

I know a few guys overhere that have off-road cars with fron taxles in the front and in the rear with reverse cut ring&pinion gears. During offroad use it is beautifull but if you gain speed it turns faster then you can imagine and the results are not that funny anymore.

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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Hey Ralphy, take a look at this IRS(we have seen it in several posts ) » 11/01/2011 9:04 am

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Daze, is the drawing a different Arning designed system?

The Arning designe I have in my files is totaly different then the one in the drawing or above it in the picture.
Arning located the rear trailing arm to the top of the hub and the front to the bottom of it. In motion these act like a watts linkage and therefore the need for a heim-joint on the LCA inner pivot. Sure the heim-joint also aids in adjusting toe but this could also be done by shims (cheaper). I m sure that the watts linkage that is in Arnings design is there to center the wheel in his full travel.
With that said, the above shown systems have nothing to do with such a future and the LCA heim jaoint helps only in toe adjustments.

That how I see it when looking to the pics and drawings. Correct me if I'm wrong please!

Mustsed

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