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Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Multi Board IRS Searchers. » 12/20/2011 6:11 am

37ford
Replies: 35

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I would also like to add that there have been numerous times over the years where I have had a problem with a vehicle, and, even being someone with practical knowledge of cars, I found it hard to find a proper place to post my question.

"My car won't run right.  Do I post it in the Eninge, Eletrical System, Fuel System, Exhaust, Air Intake, or Tires ad Wheels Board?"

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Multi Board IRS Searchers. » 12/20/2011 6:04 am

37ford
Replies: 35

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I like the board the way it is.  Everything is right there on one page, and you can just search if you have a specific question.  Part of the learning is digging around and sorting through threads.

I started my first project 10 years ago, and I made the most of using forums to muddle through some complicated issues.  Most forums have a small core of experts that can can give you a quick and useful reponse, and a good chunk of the rest are people that mean well, but can only offer a weak opinion or "my brother's cousin's girlfried...".  Those are the people that turn good message boards like this into huge, compartmentalized megabites of garbage.  I saw several good ones shoot themselves in the foot by worrying more about hits than letting people help each other.  This one may not have much traffic, but you can ask a question and get a timely, informative response.  Plus, you don't have to scroll to page 5 the next day just to find your thread.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » IRS Spreadsheet » 11/17/2011 12:11 pm

37ford
Replies: 18

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The latest -

Let me know if there is something you disagree with or something I need to add.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » IRS Spreadsheet » 11/16/2011 1:48 pm

37ford
Replies: 18

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Spreadsheet sent.

We should be careful trying to create all these masterful spreasheets.  We might just eliminate the need for the forum.

No, I'm all for making another.  How do you want to approach it?  Would these be "feature preferences"?

Here's how I look at the process:

1. Deciding to use an IRS.
2. Deciding your area of importance.
3. Deciding how you want to address the problem characteristics that match your area.
4. Determining what additional measures you want to take to make it perfect for you.

The last step would include things deciding where to place the brakes.  Would you rather hae the ease of maintenance or reduced unsprung weight for perfomance?  It would also inclide any further upgrades like lightening the half shafts, bushing choices, beefing up the LCAs, etc.

Does this sound like a locigal approach?  Is this anything like what you are thinking?

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » IRS Spreadsheet » 11/16/2011 11:51 am

37ford
Replies: 18

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I realized there were a couple more things I wanted to add, and deleted it.  Then, I couldn't get it to repost.

About the *,  I added a "level of difficulty" column to hopfully serve as a way to distingush the "How to address" options so that, if it's your desire, you can pick the easiest options to accomplish your area of importance.  Of course, level of difficulty will vary from vehicle to vehicle and IRS to IRS, but I think we can ballpark it.


Still unsure if a lower watts link can be considered an effective wheel hop solution.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » IRS Spreadsheet » 11/15/2011 6:39 am

37ford
Replies: 18

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Updated





Daze, can you elaborate on the squat solutions?

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » IRS Spreadsheet » 11/14/2011 3:01 pm

37ford
Replies: 18

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...Hence the need for a simplified explanation.

Wow.  That looks like of of my engineering books from college.  If I have another nightmare about missing my final exam, it's all your fault!

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » IRS Spreadsheet » 11/14/2011 9:10 am

37ford
Replies: 18

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I'd like to make an attempt at putting together a spreadsheet showing the different characteristics of a typical IRS setup that gets addressed here and expand on it .  I threw something together in about 5 minutes and would like any suggestions on how to go about it and would definelty appreciate infomation to complete it.

Maybe we can come up with something simple and useful in the end.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Watts Links, Spring Locations, etc. » 11/14/2011 8:38 am

37ford
Replies: 40

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So, it seems to me that, if I want to start with a JAG unit, all I need to do is add some LCA stabilizers like the orange ones in Daze's sig pic, an upper watts link, and a sway bar.  This would take care of all the main concers with systemns like these.  Running a sinlg e adjustable coilover is more of a prefernce, and it's location is TBD.

I'm cosidering making a spreadsheet with all the charateristics of an IRS, how each one is addressed, and somehow assign a level of importance based on the different applications.  I could post it here let everyone contribute and argue endlessly.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Watts Links, Spring Locations, etc. » 11/10/2011 6:57 pm

37ford
Replies: 40

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Ugh!  This is all too complicated!


Thanks for answering my questions.  I've read many of the threads,  but sometimes it's hard to follow everything when you don't know what all everyone is talking about,  who is responging to who,  and there are links to more posts everywhere.  I'm putting it together bit by bit,  but I get less and less confident about tackling this project the more I learn.  Ther just doesn't seem to be an easy way to do it.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Watts Links, Spring Locations, etc. » 11/10/2011 11:21 am

37ford
Replies: 40

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The main thing I was wondering was if the difference in the outboard hub would allow for an easier bolt-on utilizing some of the holes already there.  There are two at the top on the semi-flat area.  I don't know what they were originally intended for.  Plus you have the two dog ears for the brake calipers.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Watts Links, Spring Locations, etc. » 11/10/2011 10:01 am

37ford
Replies: 40

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That looks like it is made for the older inboard brake hubs.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Watts Links, Spring Locations, etc. » 11/10/2011 7:50 am

37ford
Replies: 40

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Daze,
I saw the thread where you were asking about an upper watts link on outbaord disc brake hubs.  Have you come to any conclusions on that?  I noticed there are two holes on the top of the hub.  Can those be used for mouting a bracket for a watts link?

I also found this in my searching :




The simplicity is very appealing to me in that there aren't a half dozen links under there to worry with and there is one adustable coilover.  The functionality has been questioned, though.


1.  What would be the better side to have a single shock?  Front or rear?
2.  Is a top mounted watts link really much different than a botton mount?  I realize the point is trying to take the stress off the hub, but is a failure really a possibility in most street applications?  Juaguar designed the unit without an UCA or any other stabilizer on the upper hub, right?
3.  It seems like there would be a lot less room to pull of an upper watts link for most applications.  Can this be a factor?

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » when is the performance upgrade of a basic IRS install enough ... » 11/09/2011 7:22 am

37ford
Replies: 16

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I'm glad someone brought this topic up.  I've been wondering myself about what aspects of setting up an IRS or even a complete suspension system that I should even concern myself with.  There seems to be an endless list of terms out there that get thrown around, and I wonder just how much a lot of it matters in the end.

First off,  I appreciate ingenuity.  If someone wants to put in a lot of energy to try to get something perfect, then great.   That describes me most of the time.  But,  this is a case where, by putting an IRS in a car that that didn't already have one to start with,  I am already in the 95th percentile as far as level of ingenuity.  That's pretty good.    My time is precious, and my objective is to have a finished car to enjoy.  I don't like endless tinkering.

I just want a car that rides and handles well.  There are plenty of modern cars out there that fit that criteria with bolt-in suspension systems.  That's what I am aiming for.  I'd like to have a parts list of what I need,  get the parts, put it together, bolt it in, and move onto the next phase.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Control arm inner bearings » 11/08/2011 8:27 pm

37ford
Replies: 7

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Daze,  how did the bushing set come out?  Are you still planning on selling sets?

What's this CWI kit I have read about?  Their site looks to be discontinued and there isn't much Info out there.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » New guy and another post about IRS in a classic mustang » 11/01/2011 2:12 pm

37ford
Replies: 21

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No offense taken here.  That's how you learn.  I like to throw stuff out there and get information from those who have been there.  It's a lto easier than learning the hard way.

Concerning the ease of finding parts, you gave e a good source with "everdayXJ", and I plan to call him when I get everything figured out.  I just have not had good luck finding parts on ebay.  I have been looking since I started this thread, and there are a few complete XJ6/12 systems on there, but there just aren't many parts.  Maybe I'm not using the right search phrase, but most of the X300, 308 stuff I see on there seems high and is located in England.

I have also looked for Wilwood, Brembo, etc. Jaguar disc brake kits online without much luch.  Again, maybe I'm not looking in the right places.  I'm typically pretty resourceful, but haven't really come up with much as far as calipers and brackets.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » New guy and another post about IRS in a classic mustang » 10/31/2011 11:40 am

37ford
Replies: 21

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I got another one for you.  The main reason for getting the wheel hubs from an X300, X308, or XJ40 is to have hubs with brake mount provisions.  That openes up a new set of challenges, (according to your posts).

1. Finding the parts.
2. Making them work with the the older parts.
3. Changing the bolt pattern.
4. Being stuck with Jag brake parts.

Any of these may or may not be difficult, or may not even apply.  In my case, I will definetely be chanign the bolt pattern, and I won't be satisified with using Jag brake parts.  I like using stuff more readily available.  Finding the parts will probably be a problem.  That's the case with everything once I actually start looking with money in my pocket.

Now, I'll just get to the point.  Why not just weld a provision onto the XJ6/12 hub for the brake caliper brackets?  The hub looks plenty beefy enough for the torque, if done properly.  Then:

1.  You can use whatever brake parts you want.
2.  You won't have to locate and buy parts from two different cars.
3. If you have to change the bolt pattern, you can can just drill out the flange on the XJ instead of having to use a spacer.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Wheel hop » 10/31/2011 11:20 am

37ford
Replies: 1

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I have seen a few comment about how wheel hop is a drawback to IRS systems and Daze mentioned it in another one of my posts.  What is it about the geometry of these systems that make this a potential issue?  What can be done to minimize it?

Is this something that only happens at the track with slicks or can it happen with moderately high horsepower street cars?

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » New guy and another post about IRS in a classic mustang » 10/26/2011 7:07 am

37ford
Replies: 21

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Are the LCAs inteneded to be level at ride height?

The stabilizing arms you show in orange in your sig pic...I assume you fabbed those yourself.  Was there something that had the same function within the cage fron the factory or were you just beefing up the system?

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » New guy and another post about IRS in a classic mustang » 10/25/2011 8:29 am

37ford
Replies: 21

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Ah.  I see that it looks like a completely different beast alotogether.  The XJ6/12s look much simpler.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » New guy and another post about IRS in a classic mustang » 10/25/2011 7:25 am

37ford
Replies: 21

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"I would start with a rear end from a series I, II, or III xj6/12.  Why because they are the easiest to modify to fit  your specific application, fairly common, can be had for a couple hundred bucks, AND can be upgraded to have the things you want.  The outboard discs can be purchased from a newer jag and it is a good idea to replace the differential carrier and the ring and pinion any way so why not get dana 44 parts and then you can pick exactly what you want."

I've been going back and forth from this thread to the other one about the outboard brake hubs to try to piece it altogether in my head.  You suggest starting with a X6/12 complete unit because of the sheer quantity available and capatibility.  You purchased hubs and half shafts from an X308 to have outboard brakes on a XJ6 main unit.

If I were to do something similar, I would likely still have to change gears and add a limited slip.  If that were the case, I would only end up with the center housing, sone innards,  and LCAs from the complete XJ6/12 I started with.  Then, I would have the half shafts and hubs from a X308,X300, or XJ40.  I may be misunderstanding or missing something, but it seems like, if you can manage to get those outboard parts from an  X308,X300, or XJ40, then why not start with that whole unit and modify the width?  Are the carriers on those not as good?  Is there something about those units that make them harder to narrow?

It just seems like you would wind up with a lot less spare parts sitting around in the end.  I'm sure there's a good explanation, but I was curious.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Hey Mustsed, my outboard brake parts came today » 10/24/2011 2:23 pm

37ford
Replies: 32

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So, it sounds like what you have done between the two units will be what I want to do with one: narrowingan XJ6/12, gear change, traction control, and outboard disc brake conversion from an XJ40.   I'll be expecting a full parts list and an illustrated manual. 

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » Hey Mustsed, my outboard brake parts came today » 10/24/2011 9:18 am

37ford
Replies: 32

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Daze,  so what type of rotors did you end up using?  New stock ones?  Did you use all the original caliper mounts and such?

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » New guy and another post about IRS in a classic mustang » 10/24/2011 7:41 am

37ford
Replies: 21

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I have made it through all of your articles.  That's great stuff.  I haven't memorized it all yet, and I am sure I will be going back to the one adout the differential.  All that was a little too much to absorb in one sitting. 

I find it very interesting that the Jag units have no dedicated UCR.  Seems like that simplifies things.  I was reading about the narrowing process, and noticed that you shortened the half shafts and LCRs the same amount.  Since you did that, I assume those are parallel to each other?

Did the original units not come with a sway bar? 


As for pics of my project, I do not have one yet.  I currently own a 37 Ford that I finished a couple years ago.  I came to the conclusion that I will have to sell it before I can fund another project.  Fortunately, it really cheap to daydream, plan, and do research on the next project.

Here is a build video of the '37.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iubRRojY9qM

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » New guy and another post about IRS in a classic mustang » 10/22/2011 1:00 pm

37ford
Replies: 21

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Are the xj40, x300, and x308 units newer than 87?

Ideally, I want a 3.25 to 3.50 gear, outboard brakes, and traction lock.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » New guy and another post about IRS in a classic mustang » 10/22/2011 9:21 am

37ford
Replies: 21

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Thanks for all the info, daze.  I've been reading up on all your articles.  It's nice to have some else do the the hard work for once.  I'm sure I'll have more questions.

Independent Rear Suspension Forum » New guy and another post about IRS in a classic mustang » 10/20/2011 2:21 pm

37ford
Replies: 21

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I know everyone is excited about have a new poster here and even more excited about having yet another topic about IRS in a classic mustang, so here I am.

I was directed here from a classic mustang forum and have been knee deep for the last couple days reading about everything I could find.  I found the infomation about the history of IRS in the early mustangs really interesting, and it made me more excited about the prospect of putting one in my project.  Of course, that led me to CTM and Duane's bolt-on design.  It's great to have someone putting in the effort to dig up history like that and bring it back new and improved.  I'd love to be able to buy one of his units one day, but the "I can do it myself" stubborn part of me wants to at least explore the idea of finding a used Jag unit to make work.

There isn't a shortage of posts on here about Jag units, but I'm not quite ready for all the technical geometry stuff quite yet (baby steps).  What I am looking for is more information about what years to look for?
What years have what widths? 
What years have outboard brakes?
What years are stronger?
What years are better designs?
What are good sources to find them?

...that kind of stuff.

I appreciate the help in advance.  I look forward to being a part of this site, and, one day, I hope I can be a contributor and not the newbie who asks the same old questions.

Andy

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