Independent Rear Suspension, OEM, aftermarket, stock configuration or heavily modified, all makes and models, everyone is welcome here!!!

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



11/26/2011 9:07 am  #1


The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2280/vetirs.jpg


If it isn't broken..... modify it anyway!!!!
http://dazecars.com/dazed/JagArmssignature.jpg
 

12/21/2011 7:46 am  #2


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

TVR Tuscan V6 Race Car with a Corvette C3 Iron Carrier
Very different in the fact the bearing hub is 4 point mounted.

http://www.britishracecar.com/MichaelZappa-TVR-Tuscan/MichaelZappa-TVR-Tuscan-DG.jpg

http://www.britishracecar.com/MichaelZappa-TVR-Tuscan.htm

Last edited by Ralphy (12/21/2011 8:58 am)

 

12/21/2011 8:19 am  #3


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

 

12/21/2011 8:34 am  #4


 

12/21/2011 3:57 pm  #5


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Back around Thanksgiving, we made a trip to the Factory Five plant in MA.
My motivation was to get this picture - and check out their other products too.

http://i40.tinypic.com/15yzpeb.jpg


I swiped the camera from my photographer - while she was browsing the prints.  I forgot to bring my tape measure!

Basiclly this is a C5 complete suspension mounted to the Factory Five Chassis for their mid-engined GT.

A similar mounting approach could be used to graft a C5 or C6 IRS to a C3 Corvette - which I have considered as an upgrade option to my 78 'vette.

Cheers - Jim

Last edited by phantomjock (12/21/2011 3:59 pm)


UNDERCONSTRUCTION! Highly Modified C3 Corvette
         Dual Wishbone IRS w Subframe + Custom Uprights
 

12/21/2011 4:00 pm  #6


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Here is an Overhead Image:

http://i43.tinypic.com/sl48dk.jpg


Cheers - Jim


UNDERCONSTRUCTION! Highly Modified C3 Corvette
         Dual Wishbone IRS w Subframe + Custom Uprights
 

12/21/2011 4:27 pm  #7


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

In the early 1980s, John Giovanni - patented a design to improve the C3 Corvette IRS.
Here are some images from his Patent, a few words from Corvette Fever at the time, and my efforts on it.
Hope you find some interesting information here:

http://i40.tinypic.com/2jc8xmg.jpg



The upper control rods were atttached to the rear Differential with this bracket:
http://i40.tinypic.com/35ldu8y.jpg



His effort was to remove this camber change from the C3 Rear Suspension:
http://i42.tinypic.com/rli7mb.jpg


Here is a Hardware View of his implementation:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2cgeob8.jpg



I was reluctant to mount directly to the diff - so welded brackets - and tabs to the rear diff carrier that is mounted to the chassis:

http://i44.tinypic.com/b5gvg4.jpg


The installed pics of my implementation:
http://i40.tinypic.com/11rvdqs.jpg



I did some "bench testing" measured camber change and plotted against the Patent Claims (His are black - extended in BLUE - mine observed in RED):
http://i43.tinypic.com/2uffrz9.jpg


While I am pleased with those results - BUT, the toe change is still governed (over-ridden) by the rear trailing arms of the C3. Thats why these occurr:
http://i39.tinypic.com/25p77zs.jpg


Now a few words from... (Corvette Fever)
http://i42.tinypic.com/a1s6.jpg


There is some more discussion available on the web - if you Google "Jim's Giovanni" you'll hit it.

Happy for comments - enjoy.

Cheers - Jim

Last edited by phantomjock (4/22/2013 3:25 pm)


UNDERCONSTRUCTION! Highly Modified C3 Corvette
         Dual Wishbone IRS w Subframe + Custom Uprights
 

12/29/2011 1:01 pm  #8


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Dave Plumley's 1953 MG TD/ C3 IRS Narrowed

http://www.britishv8.org/MG/DavePlumley/DavePlumley-HF.jpg

http://www.britishv8.org/MG/DavePlumley/DavePlumley-HZ.jpg

http://www.britishv8.org/MG/DavePlumley-MG-TD.htm

 

12/29/2011 1:15 pm  #9


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

 

12/30/2011 10:36 am  #10


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

63 Custom 427 Corvette

http://image.vetteweb.com/f/8696249/vemp_0609_09_z+63_custom+427_corvette_rear_suspension.jpg

http://image.vetteweb.com/f/8696354/vemp_0609_12_z+63_custom+427_corvette_suspension_detail.jpg

http://www.vetteweb.com/features/vemp_0607w_custom_1963_corvette/index.html

Last edited by Ralphy (12/30/2011 10:37 am)

 

12/30/2011 11:01 am  #11


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

 

12/31/2011 6:33 am  #12


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

I was (and still am) fascinated at the reasonable prices you can find Rotor-to-Rotor C5 setups.  I am willing to bet the C5 IRS  is again another order of magnitude improvement even over the C4-- and light years ahead of the C3. So I've been on a Quest to find ways to do that - we've seen a few and here is another. 

There is an outfit in NC (21st Century Street Machine - just outside of Charlotte) that  builds a Subframe that could be "reverse engineered" to accomplish the grafting:

http://i44.tinypic.com/2vj7ts7.jpg


Now, I have some designing to do.  Model a similar approach, subframe and IRS using my existing C3 bits as I've described previously. 
It will mean:
1.  A new Hub/upright -- Not as "klunky" as the Greenwood Box--with fittments for toe control & torsion bar
2.  Upper Wishbone, maybe lower H-Bone,
3.  Pushrod & Belcrand for dampers,
4.  Double mount composite leaf spring,
5.  Remove and replace Diff Carrier,
6.  And, the entire space frame mounting structure.
7.  Build, assemble, install, and move on to the rest of the car!

I was planning on using Rhino - but may opt to work in SolidWorks - there are some really complete Tutorials available from SAE.

Whew - thats no short list -- I'd better get cracking.
Oh - BTW - I'll be checking all the IC/RC and CG during the design to try and make it as close to an improvement that at least "works," and is a goood match for the front end mods I have already accomplished  [mono leaf new lowers and uppers, rack and pinion] and wide tires all around. 

I can't recall the author - nor find the exact quote - but it was something along the lines;
Its easier to make chassis (suspension) improvements than to start from scratch and hope to design the ultimate solution...

Thats my goal!

Cheers - Jim


UNDERCONSTRUCTION! Highly Modified C3 Corvette
         Dual Wishbone IRS w Subframe + Custom Uprights
 

1/09/2012 8:26 pm  #13


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Down and Dirty C3 Fix

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/attachments/c3s-for-sale-wanted/47685118d1322415525-red-scca-vintage-race-corvette-f6.jpg

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3s-for-sale-wanted/2926639-red-scca-vintage-race-corvette.html

Ralphy

Last edited by Ralphy (1/09/2012 8:27 pm)

 

1/10/2012 1:19 pm  #14


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Corvette C5 I think in a Challanger

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4954/009go3.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8135/sept07028wq9.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?40853-C5-rear-suspension-specifications-quot-mounting-points-quot

Last edited by Ralphy (1/10/2012 1:21 pm)

 

1/10/2012 5:34 pm  #15


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Appears to be a C3 conversion in a 1967 Cougar aftermarket coilovers, twin camber/toe rods, hub uprights and aluminum diff cover Also added a drive shaft parking brake

http://www.mercurycougar.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14464&d=1244764873

http://www.mercurycougar.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14463&d=1244764786

http://www.mercurycougar.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10023&d=1182560837

http://www.mercurycougar.net/forums/showthread.php?30263-1967-Cougar-project.-I-have-for-over-20-years&p=356894#post356894

Last edited by Ralphy (1/10/2012 9:39 pm)

 

1/13/2012 8:02 am  #17


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Roadster Shop C5 hubs, rated for up to 1,400 HP
This has got to be my all time favorite design, LCA's are 1 5/8"

http://www.roadstershop.com/products/suspension-independent-rear-unit
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4060/screenshot20111116at915.png

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4060/screenshot20111116at915.png

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2926/screenshot20111116at917.png


Video
http://roadstershop.com/blog/2011/roadster-shop-fast-track-irs-overview/

Chris Jacobs 1966 Chevelle Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0TEzUUx4o4

Last edited by Ralphy (1/13/2012 8:32 am)

 

1/13/2012 12:13 pm  #18


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Phil McConnell's 1974 Spitfire with 350 Chevy V8
C4 Corvette IRS

http://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/PhilMcConnell/PhilMcConnell-6.jpg

http://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/PhilMcConnell.htm

Last edited by Ralphy (1/13/2012 12:14 pm)

 

1/25/2012 5:23 am  #19


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

C3 differential stiffener.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t196/big2bird/DownCenter.jpg

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91483

Relocation of the camber rods on a C4 and added coilovers. Sitting a little low.
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/71roadster//cambell_c3_rear_suspension.jpg

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76982

Last edited by Ralphy (1/30/2012 8:40 pm)

 

1/25/2012 5:08 pm  #20


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Ralphy - a couple of things on this one:

I've seen this occasionally referred to as a Panhard Bar.  I think the title you have is a bit closer to truth - Differential Stiffener.
But that then shows some of the C3 chassis shortcomings.  The Diff is Hung from a carrier - (typically) mounted using rubber Donuts form the top, and at the pinion end - again rubber donuts and bolts.  John Greenwood and Herb Adams both recommended replacing the rubber mounts with Aluminum Pucks -- And I can tell you - the difference is just short of AMAZING.  A bit more road noise transmitted to the cockpit - but handling much improved. 

My mod will ditch the upper cross member - aka Diff Carrier - and weld a mounting plate to to the frame and the sub frame will pick up the location shown in  the pic - essentially providing the same tie - in to the main frame.  The front pick up will also be subframe mounted.  Darn! - I gotta get this in SolidWorks soon and cut/weld some bits!

Another C3 shortcoming is also pointed out clearly in the pic.  When was the LAST TIME you used a Spare Tire? 
I pulled mine from my C3 at 75K miles having NEVER used the Tire.  That was in 1986! 
Mind you I've only put another 100K on since give or take -- but look at the waste on exhaust tubing - not to mention the loss of efficiency! 
(Hope there is an X Pipe forward)
SPARE??-- My '09 Solstice Coupe only has an INFLATOR!

On the C4 - Lowering the LCA for better placement of RC?   Guess so.   Pretty good idea.
Cheers - Jim


UNDERCONSTRUCTION! Highly Modified C3 Corvette
         Dual Wishbone IRS w Subframe + Custom Uprights
 

1/30/2012 8:29 pm  #21


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Hey Jim, PJ!
Did you see the guy that built the Mongoose Grand Sport Coupe in about 3 months? He's from your area and he bought suspension parts here in ATL. He even did his own interior!

Black Betty Build, VetteMod link
http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7581


This guy has a Corvette bone yard here. The link I found below is new. I did not find it when I originally Googled his info. It's not up and running yet.

The business card says:
Carroll Corvette & Performance
New and Used
Chris Carroll-770-546-3504
http://carrollcorvette.com/

The second pic at post #19, looks like he's sitting a bit low?

Ralphy

Last edited by Ralphy (1/30/2012 9:26 pm)

 

1/31/2012 7:28 am  #22


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

I know the C3 had the iron units early, that's what I have. But I thought the later C3 came with the aluminum Dana 36 or 44. If they did I would also guess they had the, Batwing? Here is an ad selling the posi for a C3 and it says Dana 44. I have the 3.36 gears.

http://shop.cruiserparts.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=11817

Here is a guy on line selling a C3 Dana 44. Says 80 to 82 C3.

http://www.corvetteflorida.com/forums/showthread.php?p=131619

Last edited by Ralphy (1/31/2012 7:39 am)

 

1/31/2012 7:30 am  #23


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Jim, Here are some pics of what I have from VM.

You can see I can lower my suspension, I think 1". Some Cobras ride at what I have, but some lower. Wilwoods peeking through a little at the rear.
http://www.vettemod.com/forum/imagehosting/13874b244144aaa71.jpg


Here is my C3 issue, the trailing arms compromise the drivers area.
http://www.vettemod.com/forum/imagehosting/13874b40eaa994df9.jpg


As far as building in anti squat, the C3 at least mine has none. I do not feel it causes any issues. My transverse spring has been shortened when the suspension was narrowed. So I'm sure I have a higher spring rate, I think I have the 9 leaf, which ever one is higher that's what I have.

I'm looking at something like this. Instead of two points at the bottom, just one with the watts up top. Use a toe rod similar to the C4. However, make it equal length to the half shaft. This will give no roll steer, but wait! Pier taught me something, if I raise the inner point above the half shaft. I can create roll steer. Higher is more. So maybe if I make the inner toe rod point adjustable, I can play with the RS if I want. The pic below has almost the same frame as mine. The second pic below is mine.
http://www.vettemod.com/forum/imagehosting/13874b40cb32b3277.jpg


The coilover would go forward, just one coilover. Not like this pic.. If I have fit issues Pro Shock and others make a smaller diameter coilover.

Oh, but I never removed the half shaft as a stressed member? Well I am welding in a 1 3/4" tube to mount my carrier. It's positioned forward, so at a later date I could add a link like Pier to remove the HS as a suspension member.

This is about as far as I got. Only exception I have also removed the diff crossmember and welded brackets. You can see the tire rub, it's inside and out. I do not want to change width at all! LOL! Brake lines have to be moved inside the frame also. Arrows are pointing at all the welds I needed to remove, must have had 6 linear feet of it. No need for bump stops with coilovers, most have them built in.
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss311/Willy12_2009/IMG_1227.jpg


Here is the C3 aluminum rear cover I bought. It makes a great place to mount the toe rod. Like the C4!
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss311/Willy12_2009/IMG_1233.jpg


A question I have is. Can I remove the camber rod portion of my bearing support, just wack it off? Making a new aluminum 7000 series upright strong enough to take the place?
http://www.vansteel.com/_custom/PartImages/BA_21.jpg

I'm also going to toss the backing plates and parking brakes, Use a line lock for PB. I see in your VM pics you have one.

Ralphy

Last edited by Ralphy (1/31/2012 7:59 am)

 

1/31/2012 3:50 pm  #24


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

A question I have is. Can I remove the camber rod portion of my bearing support, just wack it off? Making a new aluminum 7000 series upright strong enough to take the place?

LIKE THIS:

http://i39.tinypic.com/11kee7t.jpg


Funny - that is exactly what I am considering.  Also Thinking about NOT cutting it off - but flipping the part upside down - changing sides - so that arm (used typically for the lower strut and shock) will be on TOP and used for my UCA! 
That bit through bolts on the C3 Trailing arm which on my "├»ncantation" will get a major mod as well.    I have been toying with just cutting up the C3 TAs and make them look like this Greenwood picture (a 5 link system):

http://i43.tinypic.com/28jjl0w.jpg


BTW - I am also planning on Hydraulic Parking Brakes (and a line-lock forward) - but as I am also planning on raising the diff.  With that done,  I'm going to fabricate a set of E-Brakes - as manual over-ride/Backup, in case of total Hydraulic loss/failure.  Those will mount to the diff and a disc to the pinion. Not perfect - but I won't have to drag my feet Fred Flintstone style!

Cheers  -Jim


UNDERCONSTRUCTION! Highly Modified C3 Corvette
         Dual Wishbone IRS w Subframe + Custom Uprights
 

1/31/2012 4:31 pm  #25


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Another (pic from VM) and this shows the bearing carrier adapted to a dual LCA. 

http://i39.tinypic.com/15otqg2.jpg


NOW - Visualize the bearing carrier inverted - cast arm UP - and the dual - mounts lower -- Voilla!   Maybe next weekend - this one is taken!  On to Moultrie for the Swap Meet!

(I don't like the single sheer mounts - but the piece looks nice!  It also includes a means to mount the leaf spring to the TA/and-or a Toe Control Strut.)
Cheers - Jim


UNDERCONSTRUCTION! Highly Modified C3 Corvette
         Dual Wishbone IRS w Subframe + Custom Uprights
 

1/31/2012 5:36 pm  #26


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

See you have what, 14" long trailing arms. Now mine the same length are 3" to 4" to long. So now I'm down to 10" maybe 11" long TA's. Now if I were to go the Greenwood route the dual trailing links stop maybe 3" to 4" in front of the HS centerline. So now I'm looking at trailing links a length of 7" to  8". Seems to short for me! I agree with the single sheer anywhere. But it may be hard to avoid at times. Yes cut like that!

The flipping up seems, Hmmm...... Is that to high, to far above the HS? Worth a thought. I can't see the front point of the links in the bottom pic, but it looks as if he tried to stay as far forward as possible. The Guldstrand supplies a bracket and it seems a Corvette guy would lose a bit of length with it.

I never looked hard at that Greenwood. The toe links look equal length to the HS. Then lowered at the wheel, Roll Steer?

Here's a sketch I posted at VM long ago. Way before I saw the Arning design. If you look at where I locate the center hole, off center on the Watts. It would mimic the radius of the lower trailing link. TT was scratching his head, back then, so was I. LOL!

When you stop laughing at my drawing skills, take another look.
http://www.vettemod.com/forum/imagehosting/13874c768e03dff9d.jpg

http://www.vettemod.com/forum/imagehosting/13874b2442ee39006.jpg

Last edited by Ralphy (1/31/2012 5:50 pm)

 

1/31/2012 6:02 pm  #27


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Did you see the upper shock bracket on my car? The SOB even has a gusset behind. Must have had about 9 linear inches of weld! What a bleep removing. To bad the shocks upper mount should have been about 1" higher. It's been bottomed, so much for the bump stops.

Ralphy

Last edited by Ralphy (1/31/2012 7:17 pm)

 

1/31/2012 11:18 pm  #28


 

2/01/2012 7:09 am  #29


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

Why dont you turn your own bearing housing out of something superior  to cast steel?   Seems to be a works dont it solution to chop up a  Vette hub carrier for its bearing housing.

 

2/01/2012 7:27 am  #30


Re: The Chevrolet IRS picture thread

I haven't got to that point yet. However I had thought about it. It's not a weak link as far as I know. I could maybe sell the originals. I am already accumulating C3 parts I will never use again. For one the cross member also the diff cover. The bearing supports at VanSteel go for $161.00 each.

You just gave me an idea TR. If I made two, why not 10? Maybe some Vette conversion guys would want the same.

Last edited by Ralphy (2/01/2012 7:36 am)

 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum